Talk:Ilya Muromets

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Old talk

healed by a travelling minstrel: Just one, or a group?; Who?

Ilya Muromets known to live in XI-XII centuries. His remains are stored in Kiev Pecherski Monastery.
- Does anyone have references?

-- Sy / ^(talk)

- - The monk known as Reverend Ilia Muromets whose relics are stored in Kiev Pecharsky Monastery was canonized in 1643. At the time there was no doubt that he was the epic Ilia Muromets. This is also the official point of view of the Orthodox church. But in fact nothing is known about this monk. There are visible wounds on the relics and he probably died from one of them. He is also rather tall for his time - about 177 cm - and has traces of backbone illness that could have left him paralyzed. But many scientists argue that the epic Ilia Muromets is a kind of a fairy-tale character and has no real prototype - only the name could be taken from some real warrior and there could be a great many of them since any Ilia who was born near Murom or served there could be named this way. --AGP 16:39, 15 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I read bylina, where three unnamed piligrims come to Ilya's house when he was alone and ask for food and drink, but Ilya answer "I can't walk". Then piligrims ask again and again. At third time Ilya get off from stove where he lied. If you read russian you can use bylins Sorry my english. --hinotf 09:55, 11 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Murom is Ugric tribe who lived on this territory

add this to article because his ethnicity is Ugric not Slavic

The Muromians (Russian: Мурома) were one of Finno-Ugric tribes who lived in the Oka River basin of what is now Russia. The tribe farmed, hunted, and traded. The Muromians paid tribute to the Rus princes and were likely assimilated by the Eastern Slavs in the 12th century into modern Russians. Edelward (talk) 22:17, 11 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Any printed evidence that Ilya Muromets was of Muromian tribe rather than simply from Murom region? Please cite your sources. - Altenmann >t 23:45, 11 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Animation

I have a vivid memory of seeing a cartoon on TV called "Ilya Muromets." I believe the hero's theme music was from Mahler's 1st symphony. I think the cartoon was a Soviet production and was shown on NYC TV during a thaw in relations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.150.59.18 (talk • contribs) 15:04, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

1) Ilya Muromets, prolog (1975), music from the Symphony No 3 (Ilya Muromets) in B minor, Op. 42 (1911) of Reinhold Glière edited by Tomas Korganov,
2) Ilya Muromets i Solovey-Razboynik (1978)
— Alexey Tourbaevsky, _cheloVechek / ^talk 16:56, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Origin

Ilya, as well as the other Bogatyrs, is not a character only in Russian folklore, but also in folklore of other Slavic countries. Therefore, calling him exclusively Russian is incorrect. --M. Humeniuk (talk) 19:15, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Combing the Archive

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2023 and 8 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Istanisavljevic (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Istanisavljevic (talk) 16:10, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

...with zero effect. - Altenmann >talk 16:33, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Birthplace

Ilya Muromets is connected to the "Ukrainian Polanian tribe"? He may have been born in Moroviysk in present-day Chernihiv region of Ukraine? Currently we have Western sources cited that do not say this and this looks like to be the generally accepted version. The version of "Ilya of Morovsk" does not look to be accepted anymore. The only mention I could find in a Western source is The Growth of Literature vol. 2 which was originally published in 1932. Although the statement about the birthplace was not even sourced in the first place. Mellk (talk) 11:55, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mykula Selyaninovich is connected to Polanian tribe. Currently, there are two versions of his birthplace, original Kievan and Russian. Both are cited. There's no need to POV-Push russian version only. Shahray (talk) 12:28, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:FRINGE. Please find modern Western sources that support this version. The sources you used do not trump the reliable sources currently used, which you sidelined as 'Russian interpretations'. You also placed emphasis on an outdated version that was suggested by some imperial-era historians. Mellk (talk) 12:34, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Western sources aren't "must have", especially if the subject is not as popular in the west. My changes don't intervene with Russian interpretation. What exactly should I prove "mainstream"? In Kievan version, Morivsk is most likely location, while in russian it's Murom. Russian bylinas are Novgorodian interpretation of different stories with Kievan bogatyrs. What "emphasis on outdated versions"?

Also regarding "Rus' people", my changes could easily be put into Etymology, why is there a need for you to delete all my changes every single time? What exactly do you consider "editorializing? Shahray (talk) 12:50, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What? He still belongs to the Kievan cycle of byliny. The byliny were mostly collected in the 19th-century in the northern regions, so it is known from certain provinces. Per WP:DUE, you need to prove that in mainstream sources they talk about "Ilko Murovets" rather than "Ilya Muromets". Mellk (talk) 13:24, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You also need to avoid inserting your own commentary and editorializing already-sourced statements when making edits. If a statement is already supported by a source, you cannot change the meaning in a way that is not supported by the source. Mellk (talk) 13:26, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, "Illia Murovets" is not an alt name when there is only one result on Google for this name. Mellk (talk) 12:47, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Notes in the article:Ukrainian: Ілля Муромець, romanized: Illia Muromets. It seems to me you're just pushing Russian-POV. Shahray (talk) 12:52, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]